Absolutely right on! Ohio University is an outstanding institution. The Post doesn't have to be a mouth piece for the University but it also doesn't have to trash the University at every turn. It's nothing but elitist journalism students who hate the fact that they are at OU. The only reason they are even at OU is because the Scripps school is here. They don't like anything about the school that isn't journalism related and they feel as though it's their obligation to trash the rest of the school to show how "above it all" they are, all the while hiding behind some vague "journalistic responsibility".

Agree completely! If enough of us speak out against the sort of "journalism" going on here, perhaps something will change for the better. I have never come accross a campus paper that is so blatantly out to bite the hand that feeds it.

If there were no Ohio University, there would be no Post (case in point: your web address ends with ohiou.edu). The university must be doing SOMETHING right, or else all of the writers/editors of The Post would not be here. So....come on guys, support your school!!

Yeah! If enough of us complain that The Post reports about the negative and the positive things that happen at the University and calls out the administrators who ignore the wishes of the majority of the student body maybe we can all put on our rose colored glasses and not have to be reminded what naive people we are.

The wed address ends with Ohiou.edu because we're hosted on their server. The Post could easily create it's own domain free of said suffix but we'd prefer to keep the paper you love to bash free. The Post is independent of Ohio University and not only has existed for over 100 years but would exist without OU.

As for you summit_alum, how dare you question our love for OU. We call out this administration because we're tired or seeing what they are doing to the school we love to much. But I guess if we all turn a blind eye to our president constantly giving himself raises in huge budget deficits or to gambling rings going on within our athletic department or our department officials stealing money from the University then it will all just go away right?

If no one calls these people out they will continue to tarnish the name of this school. Don't shoot the messenger just because we choose hold those who's salaries we pay accountable for their actions. This is not a mouthpiece for this University, it is an institution that has dedicated itself to keeping the administration, that we as students rely on, accountable for what they do to us.

Do not dare question our love for OU and for Scripps. I love Ohio University and I would not trade my experiences here for anything and I know I speak for every other member of The Post, past and present, when I say you are dead wrong in your assessment of our school pride.

Yes, yes, "thexfactor", it is great to call out a faulty administration. No one is saying OU is peaches and cream, but it is unethical journalism to specifically target an audience (parents) with old stories that are do nothing but strike fear. As a precollege adviser it made me *sick* to hear a parent of a new student in the college of communication actually say: "if we had read this issue of the post earlier we would not have enrolled our kid here". That is scary stuff. Is that your mission? If you love Ohio University, why not make the new students and parents feel welcome, instead of hesitant? I think Scripps is happy you are independent. Your unethical journalism is a bruise on what their program produces. Just remember that without OU, yes... you could still exist. But you can go work for the A-news anytime.

Maybe if some people stop putting money in the administration's pocket they'll start listening to what students are left.

I don't understand how you guys can keep your position and call us unethical. You're asking us to NOT REPORT THE TRUTH and you're making that the ethical standpoint. If you love this school so much, why are you embarrassed by it's actions? We love the school for better or worse, but if tough love is what it takes to get the school back on track to being a premier institution, we'll use tough love.

I wish I had known what my money was going to go to before I came here. It wouldn't have deterred me, but definitely would have been more apt to speak out earlier on as a student.

Again, if we were making this stuff up, you're totally right, we're assholes, but we're just reporting what happens. Those issues are designed to give students a heads up as to what they're getting themselves into. If I came in not knowing all that I know and had to hear it gradually over a year, I'd be questioning my decision gradually. If I get it all at once, I might question my decision, but it might be a little easier to swallow and I'd be more prepared for what was inevitable in the future (more ineptitude from our leaders).

No one said that you're not reporting the truth, however it's quite obvious that The Post picks and chooses what truths to cover, and those all seem to be when something happens involving the administration. THEN a lot of times the Post's anti-administration bias kicks in to make it sound worse than it needs to be.

Yes, the stuff you cover is in fact true of what happened on a base level, but it's no big secret that a large amount of negative stories are covered, and even in positive stories you guys grasp at straws looking to take cheap shots at the higher ups.

Here's an example of selective journalism... Why it is that although Ohio University has a top 10 (top 5 according to some) j-school in E.W. Scripps, our student newspaper didn't even crack the Princeton Review's "Top 20 Best Student Newspapers?"

For more than a week, we were innundated with various articles, op-eds, letters to the editor and online forum comments about OU's party school reputation. How is it that your omission from this positive type of ranking wasn't even mentioned?

The Post prides itself on holding a mirror to the face of the University. And as the saying goes, sometimes (or in the case The Post, most of the time) you don't like what you see.

Perhaps, dear Post, it is time to hold a mirror up to your own face. Afterall, these silly, unscientific Princeton Review rankings are the product of surveys from students, the population you supposedly are the voice of.

Just a few thoughts...

I really do not know what people here are complaining about.... an issue of a student newspaper that came out during precollege that had a few articles you did not like on the front page? I hate to break it to the precollege advisors (who seem to have sent all of these letters in in a coordinated effort) but the Post is not a Pre-College brochure for you... and I would hate it if it was.

Let us examine the three articles that all three of these letters to the editor had such a problem with:

1. The McDavis salary raise: In what universe would this not be on the front page of a school newspaper? This was a story that was covered statewide, on tons of wire services, as well as in the Dispatch, and most of them noted not only the raise, but the votes of no-confidence, seeing as how this was statewide news and the debate this created among the residents of Athens... it seems only natural that it is on the front page. Hell, it was on the editorial page of the ANews up until last week.

2. The health center: There have been discussions of building this health center for months, In fact, this and all healthcare related issues have were debated all year in student government. We also have a new health fee going into effect... and whether we get a new health center or not has a great impact on how that fee is spent... so it is a pretty big story considering it directly impacts money going into the pockets of students (or money coming from their parents, let’s not be naïve).

3. The Princeton Review: You know where I heard about our ranking first? My old roommate who is in Boston... that is right he read about it in a Boston paper days before it was ever in the Post. The article about the rankings had some great quotes from administrators (Terry Koons in particular) on how we are confronting our alcohol problem. What is the problem then? Once again... the rankings were nationwide news... in what universe does this not wind up in the paper?

As an aside to smile and nod... there were a lot of different rankings that OU did not make this year in the Princeton Review... why don't we just note all of them in the paper? I mean... we did not win prettiest campus, or happiest students (which we have ranked for in the past), or even about the amount of hippies we have (yes there is a category that makes allusions to people who drink lattes and wear Birkenstocks). It would be kind of silly for a paper to report on things that DID NOT happen wouldn't it? I mean... how is this for a headline "Fire Fails to break out today in Alden Library" or how about "Yet another Night Goes by Without a Major Power Outage".... no student newspaper in the country reports rankings that its school did not receive. Gloating over it is a bit childish in my humble opinion.

And that is what I think about this whole thing... do not get me wrong I like letter to the editor campaigns (have done them in the past). But I must say that in this situation I am kind of ashamed that the people who are supposed to be our precollege advisors (and thus be the front door to our university) come off as such myopic whining brats. Of these three letters, there was only one I saw that actually made cogent arguments... the other two were just rambling screeds that did not make much sense to me (I will not point out which ones I feel this way about, let people figure it out for themselves).

I guess my larger point is.... this is so petty and ridiculous.... the media does not exist to make your precollege advisor jobs easier... sometimes it does help out (I am sure there are a couple of people who noticed that front page story about the Russ gift earlier this summer)... but sometimes the facts are truly ugly (like the criminal investigation going on in Printing Services)... The Post does not create these stories out of thin air... ( ie. someone actually had to turn the audit of Printing Services over to the police for it to be a story).

If you want a whitewashed account of the university with only positive stories have parents read Outlook... or give them another brochure (Yea I know “Blah Blah they are our student newspaper Blah Blah” the kind of comment that comes from people who think a newspaper is something like a representative government, which it is not)

It amazes me how much people overreact to inconsequential things at our school... like this issue. You want reasons for why parents do not send their children to OU? I think the state and national budget climate combined with high costs of tuition have much more of an impact on our enrollment than a couple of helicopter parents overreacting at precollege (in fact I doubt the latter has much impact at all, it is just something that is in the heads of our precollege advisors, go check out why people leave OU, or do not come at all, with our office of institutional research and I bet the category "Read something Scary in the Post" does not exist).

Maybe the people who need to look into mirrors are the people who wrote these letters in the first place? Have a nice weekend everyone... its going to be beautiful.... go for a hike at Stroud's or something, I am off to enjoy the weather :)

The argument that The Post is unethical for reporting on bad stuff that is happening is totally incoherent. Shouldn't we be grateful that we know what kinds of things are going wrong at our school so that they can be fixed and make OU a better place? Remember, pride comes before the fall.

dbarbato - I agree, their letter writing campaign also indirectly says something interesting about precollege advisors. It's pretty obvious that they view themselves as the used car salesmen of Ohio University rather than ADVISORS who are supposed to help perspective students make informed decisions about how to make a very big choice about their academic career.

Thank God, dbarbato, I thought I was the only sane one here.

SmileAndNod, we are not a traditional student newspaper so we shouldn't show up on that list. We are independent of OU and as most student newspapers aren't, we shouldn't be held in the same regard they are.

As for yours and ts1227's claims against us, dbarbato and Gbow2006 have it right. You're bickering over the fact that we report what happens. We report the bad because it needs to change and awareness is the first step in fostering change. We report plenty of good, but as any psychologist will tell you, we all remember the bad more than the good in any situation. You need to realize that OU is not a perfect institution and the majority of the administration does not have anyone's interest in mind other than their own.

They are using OU as a stepping stone to something bigger for themselves and they're hurting us in the process. It needs to stop and in the time I have left at this school I and the other members of The Post are going to continue to expose the corruption within this school and do what we can to make it great again. It appears other major papers (The Columbus Dispatch and Boston Globe as stated earlier) are doing so as well.

Again, don't shoot the messenger

Dbarbato, I'm not going to lie. I only skimmed your response. I'm not even going to respond to your criticism of my comment. I just wanted to clear the air and point out that I am in no way a Pre-College advisor. It's kind of silly to assume that there's some sort of letter-writing campaign out to condemn The Post. By Pre-College advisors of all people. Talk about a conspiracy theory. Step away from the X-Files dvds and take your own advice: go outside & get some fresh air.

For Xfactor: I actually thought that you were right about the non-traditional student newspaper issue, so I did some research before I posted. Quite a few of those "Top 20" publications clearly state some variation of the following disclaimer: "Published independently by students at ____" on their websites. Does that statement pretty much sum up The Post's association with the University?

As a side-note, while I don't really ever agree with your opinions and observations, they always are articulate and rational. =)

Smile and Nod... I was not saying that you were an advisor (never even said you were in fact).... I was just pointing out that every person who wrote one of these letters to the Post (the ones that appeared in the paper last Thursday) is a precollege advisor according to the precollege website... all three of them were.... and given that all three letters mentioned the same thing in the same order... well... I put 2 and 2 together and figured they must have all coordinated it somehow... oh well.... back to my X files dvds... have to construct my tin foil helmet so the aliens can no longer read my thoughts.

In fact I think the only thing I mentioned about your post was that I thought it was silly to expect the Post to mention Princeton Review rankings that we did not receive (whether they had to do with the paper or not)

xfactor: You can get a domain outside of ohio.edu anytime you want. Domain names are like the information booth: the lady behind the counter can point you anywhere, including inside OU.

You said that The Post would exist if OU didn't. I'm not sure anyone took you seriously, but just in case: that's complete garbage. Your business manager and advertising manager are on the OU payroll, so they'd be immediately gone. There goes a lot of organizing. Also, without OU, there wouldn't be much to write about, so no one would read the content. It's tangential to the point, but still true.

The Post hates on lots of things that aren't all that bad. The worst case is the Russ College of Engineering. It's a great school, I got an awesome education from it, and large top-tier companies in my field cold-called me for hiring (I'm working at one right now). I don't know *why* you insist on saying it's a low-rank college when it most certainly is not.

I also think others present great points: The Post not ranking in the top 20 student newspapers is a glaring mark. You can say what you want about student papers and independence, but they all seem to be cop-outs.

I don't care if The Post presents the facts: it's a newspaper. It should. That's obivous. But present all the facts. I keep thinking that we don't hear the problems with the school of journalism (I've heard them independently, but you'll never seen them here). Others don't like The Post, IMHO, because they see that glaring inconsistency.

No one is denying that The Post reports the news xfactor... but they definitely pick and choose their news, and placement in the paper of things as well make it obvious that we aren't reading an unbiased publication. That's all I'm saying.

The issue of ethics is not about the content, but the timing. A newspaper is a business. The audience you should be targeting with these stories is currently at home, working in markets where the Post is not available. The audience that read the stories that were run do not understand the background from which they came. They just see headlines and start to freak out, as though sending a child to college isn't stressful enough. The A-News made an editorial decision that same week to welcome students. (Go on, swallow your pride and pick up a copy). They didn't do a dog and pony show for the university, they told it straight: All about Athens culture and how you can find your niche here... with the good and the bad. We're politically active, but we drink. OK. At least they see both sides. The Post showed one side. That is what page 2 is for... not page one.

The "gift" article ran BEFORE precollege started.

What makes me mad is that the issue of the Post that I have from when I went to precollege in 2005 is the same thing: 3 above the fold headlines on why OU is bad. A good article for a PRECOLLEGE edition of the paper would be: The Well Being plan, OU's mission on implementing more learning communities, and maybe something on things to do outside the university, like that hike you took out on Strouds. Those aren't stories that brown-nose the university... and they are stories that parents would appreciate getting additional info on.

As far as the "whining brats" comment, well, that is just immature. We need to keep our eye on the ball: precollege is intended to get students set up with a schedule and prepared for college life, not to be the press conference for stories you chose to break when their parents were in town... which is what a lot of our parent sessions have turned into. So instead of spending an hour talking about tips for moving in, how they should contact their roommate, good organizations to join, or how to succeed in the classroom, we have to answer questions on "why isn't OU getting a new health center?!"

The Post doesn't make my job hard, in fact, when the paper is brought up, it only takes 20 seconds to get them off topic and back on track... it just makes me frustrated because you guys should know better. There are times and places for your writing. Maybe a time when all the students are here... when enough people can respond to the issues brought up by the post and changes can be made. Here is who read your articles: 6,000 students here for summer session. 1,000 incoming students/parents, and 40 precollege advisors. If you ran this opening weekend, you would have had 20,000 students, 4,000 parents and whatever number of faculty and graduate students. Just bad business, really. It would have been a nice gesture to WELCOME STUDENTS rather then SCARE them. It's not bad journalism to be a friendly forum. Times and places people. Times and places.

As far as conspiracy, the precollege advisors did not conspire to write letters to the post. No administrator or faculty member urged them to write... the campaign was started when the above opinion column was read on a blog, which ended with urging anyone else to write to the post if they feel the same way. In fact, I should mention that the opinions expressed by precollege advisors are those of the individual students and NOT of the University, faculty or administration.

In a related note, one that Mark Leff would probably mention; ADVISER is just someone who gives advise, and ADVISOR is someone who deals with academic concerns. I thought that was neat, I never knew there were two versions of the word. In fact, i thought ADVISOR was a typo. Feel free to share this bit of trivia with your friends, or to impress on the first date. I got it wrong in my first post.

To OUOHYEAH: I just read your response and I think it is very well thought out and well put. For what it is worth, I was not saying that faculty or administrators urged you to write in, and like I said, I have respect for letter writing campaigns, I just felt like this one was not needed. I read each of the letters in the paper, noticed that they all mentioned similar things in a similar order, and also noticed that each letter writer was an advisor (that was in fact an interesting piece of trivia... thank you for sharing that) so I was just pointing out something that was a fact (the fact that each letter writer is a precollege advisor) that did not come across if you simply read the paper that day.

I just did not see the point to the whole thing and did not see it as big of a deal as you do. You even admit that you are able to get concerned parents back on track after a short amount of time.... so that just makes me wonder what the problem is? Your letters make it seem like the members of the Post are purposely trying to harm our school (which is something I know for a fact is not true). And yes I do read the A-News and I thought both papers did an equally good job of giving people a sample of current events.

Once again I ask what is the problem? These students will be coming here and will become immersed in current events as soon as they step foot on campus, They are going to be OU Students, they are going to be adults, and I think it belittles them to suggest that they will be completely terrified of their school because of an article in the school newspaper. Your point on timing is a good one, and I empathize with it, but I just disagree. Precollege advisors make a similar argument each year, and I have never seen it as valid. Once again, I think that if you looked at reasons why students chose not to come to OU, an article in the school newspaper would not even show up on the radar screen.

I do not write for the Post, I have never worked for them, but I have been in student organizations that have been covered by them for the past 4 years and I have to say, they have been nothing but professional with me (anecdotal I know, but it has been long enough and I have interacted with enough of the campus staff to have some knowledge of this)... they do not seek out incriminating stories (like what people seem to be insinuating here), they go with what their sources send them (which is sometimes good but sometimes bad) and that is life.

I think the larger part of our disagreement is that we do not see eye to eye on the role of the Post in the institution. (Please correct me if I am wrong in the following) You seem to look at the welcome edition of the Post as an extension of precollege, with different goals than a typical edition of the paper (gearing more towards orientation and not as much dealing with simple news). I do not see as much of a difference between the welcome edition and any other edition. I see it as a vehicle to give information on current events and nothing more, and I noted in my post above that the stories that these letters to the editor criticized were newsworthy and deserved a spot on the front page.

I apologize for my "whining brats" comment, but it was honestly how I felt. I thought you were all accusing the Post of something that they were not guilty of (knowingly trying to defame our school) and I felt that it was petty and wrong to say that.

The letter we are all commenting under refers to the Post as the guy at the bar you want to punch, claims that they hate OU, and that they should all go to Miami instead. Given that the writer is supposed to representing our school as a precollege advisor, I thought it was in very poor taste and it made me mad that the people who are introducing parents to our alma mater would say that (especially given that it is not true). Still, I apologize if anything I said offended you, sometimes I have a harsher tongue than I mean to.

If you think it's The Post's job to play nice-nice and make the university look good when the parents are in town, YOU ARE WRONG. (And xfactor and GBow are right.) We're not a press release service for the President's office, we're a newspaper. If anything, we view parents and students as paying customers who should be fully aware of what they're paying for. I, for one, do not believe the students at OU get their money's worth; I think tuition here is unconscionably inflated for what we receive in return. If The Post can play any role in preventing the administration from screwing around and spending our resources on stupid shit, I'm glad for that.

That's the end of that story.

who said anything about playing nice-nice? you don't need to serve the administration, but at least be a service to the community and give them news they will appreciate... like an edition labeled "STUDENT GUIDE" should guide them, and not scare them. once again, times and places for the negative articles. and that issue served no guidance, just a lot of confusion and uncertainty.

Don't forget that The Post is a student-run newspaper. It's not the New York Times. These are journalists that are still in school and haven't even begun their careers, much less had the time and experience to create articles and columns that are on par with national papers. Cut them some slack and, if you don't like what The Post says, read one of the other two papers published in this town.

The students at the Post shouldn't forget that either. Not every article has to inspire a revolution on campus. Sometimes students just want to read where to get good pizza.

Herzog, why are you at OU if you think that "tuition here is unconscionably inflated for what we receive in return." Is it to expose the truths about OU that the other reporters claim is their duty? Please respond as harshly and verbosely as possible.

Too bad I'm not going to write you a research paper on all the ways students are being ripped off by this school (and trust me, the situation is not much better at most universities, both public and private). I have a contract to write a book on this subject; I recently started my research. But I'll let you know how to buy it when it comes out.

Anyway, I'm not sure if many students are aware of this, but one of our own professors, Richard Vedder, started a group called The Center for College Affordability and Productivity, which offers some great insight into why college has become so outrageously expensive and administrations so unaccountable--and how to change that:

http://www.collegeaffordability.net/index.php


As for the "why are you here" question I get all the time: My short answer is, "My parents made me."

I cannot possibly argue against more affordable college and it is commendable that you are writing on the subject. I do feel bad that you let your parents make you attend OU against your will.

They only made me in the beginning; I'm glad to be here. And yes, everyone should check out Vedder's site. People don't realize that college is now completely out of reach for a lot of lower- and middle-income people, and there's no good reason for that. A college degree is becoming a status symbol (more so than in the past) and one more thing that only rich people can afford. Read the blog!

Hey, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who's accepted into Scripps for its selective Journalism program is infallible.

And as for those Precollege advisors -- just who do they think they are? It's not as if they're the 0.2% of OU's student body selected to represent the university and welcome 4000+ incoming students and their parents. And even if they were, they'd probably be a bunch of robots programmed to protect and serve the current administration's wishes; that would explain the devious letter writing campaign. There's no way that those advisors could possibly come up with opinions of their own. I mean, duh - robots. They need to be reprogrammed to know that the only way to love and support the university they attend is to constantly oppose it, no matter how small the issue, because stirring shit up is the epitome of tact, respect, and professionalism.

CuriosityAndTheCat,

I agree that The Post is run by inexperienced students and that some slack should be given. However, I also believe that questions like this need to be raised for those in control of the content can learn. Should students stand idly by when they feel wronged?

There seems to be a double standard being evoked, that The Post is here to fight the powers that be and expose the injustices being perpetrated by the administration, but if The Post receives any criticism, it must not be valid.

Of course The Post will always incur criticism from someone, there are roughly 20,000 students alone, not to mention the full-time Athens residents. It's impossible to please all of them, nor is it the duty of a newspaper. However, to simply consider a complaint or piece of criticism should not be too much to ask. It's just common courtesy.

Of course, the second sentence should read:

However, I also believe that questions like this need to be raised so those in control of the content can learn.

Please pardon the mistake, The Post currently does not offer the opportunity to edit one's post.

dcdidit: Agreed, there is a double standard. I'm not really trying to defend The Post; I just like to argue.

And, man, do I wish they allowed comment editing.